From ruth.marcus@yale.edu Tue Aug 21 22:15:24 2007 Received: from pantheon-po05.its.yale.edu (pantheon-po05.its.yale.edu [130.132.50.34]) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id l7M2FLwE026578 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:15:23 -0400 Received: from ajax.its.yale.edu (ajax.its.yale.edu [130.132.52.13]) by pantheon-po05.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l7M2FC0m010787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:15:16 -0400 Received: from ajax.its.yale.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ajax.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l7M2FCvW030512; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:15:12 -0400 Received: from localhost (rmarcus@localhost) by ajax.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) with ESMTP id l7M2FCJL030508; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:15:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: ajax.its.yale.edu: rmarcus owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:15:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Ruth Marcus X-X-Sender: rmarcus@ajax.its.yale.edu To: Ruben Safir cc: Ruth Marcus Subject: Re: wikepedia In-Reply-To: <20070710024822.GA31379@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: References: <20070708115905.GA11446@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20070709015808.GA20548@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20070710024822.GA31379@www2.mrbrklyn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-2071851724-1907989795-1187748912=:29162" X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 6004 Lines: 212 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---2071851724-1907989795-1187748912=:29162 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE You have not removed the wikipedia bio from your site. They tell me you=20 will have to do it. They have removed the famly section fom their site. Do remove it from yor site. On Mon, 9 Jul 2007, Ruben Safir wrote: > On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 09:15:30PM -0400, Ruth Marcus wrote: >> >> It is out. No need for youyo respomd. >> > > > I do a a bit of work for wikipedia so, it was nothing for me to remove it= =2E > > Ruben >> >> rOn Sun, 8 Jul 2007, Ruben Safir wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Jul 08, 2007 at 01:21:14PM -0400, Ruth Marcus wrote: >>>> >>>> I will edit it out. >>> >>> >>> Actually, I was thinking about this today when we were at MOMA, and I >>> think I might >>> just contact John who is the guy who I helped migrate wikipedia to its >>> current MYSQL >>> backend, and ask him to remove the entry. This has left a bad taste in= my >>> mouth and >>> the entry has crossed into a private vanity entry and a PR tool, both o= f >>> which are >>> violations of Wikipedia policy. I was worried about that happening bef= ore >>> when >>> folks started piling on to the family section and adding names. Now I'= m >>> feeling >>> quite certain about it. >>> >>> For one thing, generally it is very frowned upon for living subjects to >>> edit entries >>> about themselves. The article itself is not supposed to be a reflectio= n >>> of the >>> subjects aspirations or desires. The real tipping point in my thinking >>> about this >>> happened when you complained about the article being "unprofessional". >>> I'm not >>> certain what that means but I'm certain that a figure, living or deceas= ed >>> which >>> is historically important enough to have an entry in the Wikpedia needs= to >>> have >>> a good biographical section. Certainly you didn't spring to life in 19= 41 >>> and >>> more than Lincoln did at the Stephan Douglas debate, >>> >>> I'm going to think about this more, but that's how I'm leaning at the >>> moment. >>> >>> I have to get back to teaching my Perl Class. Talk to you later. And = BTW, >>> I'm very happy to hear that you've fought off the cancer sucessfuly and >>> that >>> we all love you here in Brooklyn. You are in our prayers. >>> >>> Sincerely >>> Ruben >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, 8 Jul 2007, Ruben Safir wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jul 08, 2007 at 04:18:58AM -0400, Ruth Marcus wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> PLEASE STOP INSERTING A FAMILY SECTION IN MY WIKIPEDIA ENTRY. iT IS >>>>>> UNPROFESSIONAL, INAPPROPRIATE AS WELL AS FULL OF MISTAKES AND GARBLE= D.I >>>>>> HAVE ASKED WIKIPEDIA TO DELETE IT AGAIN >>>>>> >>>>>> RUTH B MARCUS >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I didn't write it, I just reasseted. I see no errors it in however, = and >>>>> its >>>>> not unprofessional and it would belong. >>>>> >>>>> Ruben >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff >>>>> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software >>>>> >>>>> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, l= ike >>>>> Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world = - RI >>>>> Safir 1998 >>>>> >>>>> http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI >>>>> Safir 2002 >>>>> >>>>> "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME" >>>>> >>>>> "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers= to >>>>> our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in ou= r >>>>> own >>>>> society." >>>>> >>>>> "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be >>>>> damned.< >>>>> You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology ha= ve >>>>> been attacted at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I g= uess >>>>> you missed that one." >>>>> >>>>> =A9 Copyright for the Digital Millennium >>>>> >>>> >>>> mp >>>> >>>> m >>> >>> >>> -- >>> http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff >>> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software >>> >>> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, lik= e >>> Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - = RI >>> Safir 1998 >>> >>> http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI >>> Safir 2002 >>> >>> "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME" >>> >>> "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers t= o >>> our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our = own >>> society." >>> >>> "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be >>> damned.< >>> You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have >>> been attacted at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I gue= ss >>> you missed that one." >>> >>> =A9 Copyright for the Digital Millennium >>> >> >> mp >> >> m > > > --=20 > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like = Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI S= afir 1998 > > http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Saf= ir 2002 > > "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME" > > "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to = our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own = society." > > "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damne= d.< > You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have b= een attacted at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess yo= u missed that one." > > =A9 Copyright for the Digital Millennium > mp m ---2071851724-1907989795-1187748912=:29162-- From ruth.marcus@yale.edu Mon Jul 9 21:15:46 2007 Received: from pantheon-po05.its.yale.edu (pantheon-po05.its.yale.edu [130.132.50.34]) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id l6A1FiHZ031086 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:15:46 -0400 Received: from ajax.its.yale.edu (ajax.its.yale.edu [130.132.52.13]) by pantheon-po05.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6A1FWvZ022997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:15:33 -0400 Received: from ajax.its.yale.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ajax.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6A1FWbI008492 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:15:32 -0400 Received: from localhost (rmarcus@localhost) by ajax.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) with ESMTP id l6A1FUur008488 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:15:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: ajax.its.yale.edu: rmarcus owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:15:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Ruth Marcus X-X-Sender: rmarcus@ajax.its.yale.edu To: Ruben Safir Subject: Re: wikepedia In-Reply-To: <20070709015808.GA20548@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: References: <20070708115905.GA11446@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20070709015808.GA20548@www2.mrbrklyn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-2071851724-1809353975-1184030130=:8214" X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) X-Keywords: X-UID: 36340 Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 4423 Lines: 150 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---2071851724-1809353975-1184030130=:8214 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE It is out. No need for youyo respomd. rOn Sun, 8 Jul 2007, Ruben Safir wrote: > On Sun, Jul 08, 2007 at 01:21:14PM -0400, Ruth Marcus wrote: >> >> I will edit it out. > > > Actually, I was thinking about this today when we were at MOMA, and I thi= nk I might > just contact John who is the guy who I helped migrate wikipedia to its cu= rrent MYSQL > backend, and ask him to remove the entry. This has left a bad taste in m= y mouth and > the entry has crossed into a private vanity entry and a PR tool, both of = which are > violations of Wikipedia policy. I was worried about that happening befor= e when > folks started piling on to the family section and adding names. Now I'm = feeling > quite certain about it. > > For one thing, generally it is very frowned upon for living subjects to e= dit entries > about themselves. The article itself is not supposed to be a reflection = of the > subjects aspirations or desires. The real tipping point in my thinking a= bout this > happened when you complained about the article being "unprofessional". I= 'm not > certain what that means but I'm certain that a figure, living or deceased= which > is historically important enough to have an entry in the Wikpedia needs t= o have > a good biographical section. Certainly you didn't spring to life in 1941= and > more than Lincoln did at the Stephan Douglas debate, > > I'm going to think about this more, but that's how I'm leaning at the mom= ent. > > I have to get back to teaching my Perl Class. Talk to you later. And BT= W, > I'm very happy to hear that you've fought off the cancer sucessfuly and t= hat > we all love you here in Brooklyn. You are in our prayers. > > Sincerely > Ruben > >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 8 Jul 2007, Ruben Safir wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Jul 08, 2007 at 04:18:58AM -0400, Ruth Marcus wrote: >>>> >>>> PLEASE STOP INSERTING A FAMILY SECTION IN MY WIKIPEDIA ENTRY. iT IS >>>> UNPROFESSIONAL, INAPPROPRIATE AS WELL AS FULL OF MISTAKES AND GARBLED.= I >>>> HAVE ASKED WIKIPEDIA TO DELETE IT AGAIN >>>> >>>> RUTH B MARCUS >>>> >>> >>> I didn't write it, I just reasseted. I see no errors it in however, an= d >>> its >>> not unprofessional and it would belong. >>> >>> Ruben >>> >>> >>> -- >>> http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff >>> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software >>> >>> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, lik= e >>> Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - = RI >>> Safir 1998 >>> >>> http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI >>> Safir 2002 >>> >>> "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME" >>> >>> "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers t= o >>> our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our = own >>> society." >>> >>> "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be >>> damned.< >>> You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have >>> been attacted at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I gue= ss >>> you missed that one." >>> >>> =A9 Copyright for the Digital Millennium >>> >> >> mp >> >> m > > > --=20 > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like = Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI S= afir 1998 > > http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Saf= ir 2002 > > "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME" > > "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to = our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own = society." > > "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damne= d.< > You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have b= een attacted at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess yo= u missed that one." > > =A9 Copyright for the Digital Millennium > mp m ---2071851724-1809353975-1184030130=:8214-- From ruth.marcus@yale.edu Sun Jul 8 13:21:27 2007 Received: from pantheon-po08.its.yale.edu (pantheon-po08.its.yale.edu [130.132.50.50]) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id l68HLPbZ014204 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:21:27 -0400 Received: from ajax.its.yale.edu (ajax.its.yale.edu [130.132.52.13]) by pantheon-po08.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l68HLEdY004924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:21:14 -0400 Received: from ajax.its.yale.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ajax.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l68HLEdC000794; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:21:14 -0400 Received: from localhost (rmarcus@localhost) by ajax.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) with ESMTP id l68HLEmr000790; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:21:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: ajax.its.yale.edu: rmarcus owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:21:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Ruth Marcus X-X-Sender: rmarcus@ajax.its.yale.edu To: Ruben Safir cc: Ruth Marcus Subject: Re: wikepedia In-Reply-To: <20070708115905.GA11446@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: References: <20070708115905.GA11446@www2.mrbrklyn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-2071851724-322755240-1183915274=:744" X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) X-Keywords: X-UID: 36235 Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1718 Lines: 61 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---2071851724-322755240-1183915274=:744 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I will edit it out. On Sun, 8 Jul 2007, Ruben Safir wrote: > On Sun, Jul 08, 2007 at 04:18:58AM -0400, Ruth Marcus wrote: >> >> PLEASE STOP INSERTING A FAMILY SECTION IN MY WIKIPEDIA ENTRY. iT IS >> UNPROFESSIONAL, INAPPROPRIATE AS WELL AS FULL OF MISTAKES AND GARBLED.I >> HAVE ASKED WIKIPEDIA TO DELETE IT AGAIN >> >> RUTH B MARCUS >> > > I didn't write it, I just reasseted. I see no errors it in however, and = its > not unprofessional and it would belong. > > Ruben > > > --=20 > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like = Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI S= afir 1998 > > http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Saf= ir 2002 > > "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME" > > "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to = our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own = society." > > "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damne= d.< > You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have b= een attacted at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess yo= u missed that one." > > =A9 Copyright for the Digital Millennium > mp m ---2071851724-322755240-1183915274=:744-- From ruth.marcus@yale.edu Sun Jul 8 04:19:12 2007 Received: from pantheon-po06.its.yale.edu (pantheon-po06.its.yale.edu [130.132.50.36]) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id l688JAqs010002 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 04:19:12 -0400 Received: from ajax.its.yale.edu (ajax.its.yale.edu [130.132.52.13]) by pantheon-po06.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l688IxTL019586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 04:18:59 -0400 Received: from ajax.its.yale.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ajax.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l688IwZX001146 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 04:18:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (rmarcus@localhost) by ajax.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) with ESMTP id l688IwW9001142 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 04:18:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: ajax.its.yale.edu: rmarcus owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 04:18:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Ruth Marcus X-X-Sender: rmarcus@ajax.its.yale.edu To: ruben@mrbrklyn.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) X-Keywords: X-UID: 36220 Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 202 Lines: 8 PLEASE STOP INSERTING A FAMILY SECTION IN MY WIKIPEDIA ENTRY. iT IS UNPROFESSIONAL, INAPPROPRIATE AS WELL AS FULL OF MISTAKES AND GARBLED.I HAVE ASKED WIKIPEDIA TO DELETE IT AGAIN RUTH B MARCUS m From ruth.marcus@yale.edu Thu Aug 23 15:02:50 2007 Received: from pantheon-po06.its.yale.edu (pantheon-po06.its.yale.edu [130.132.50.36]) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id l7NJ2mIN010976 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:02:50 -0400 Received: from ajax.its.yale.edu (ajax.its.yale.edu [130.132.52.13]) by pantheon-po06.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l7NJ2hrj026986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:02:43 -0400 Received: from ajax.its.yale.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ajax.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l7NJ2gvb031607; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:02:42 -0400 Received: from localhost (rmarcus@localhost) by ajax.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) with ESMTP id l7NJ2g3Q031603; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:02:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: ajax.its.yale.edu: rmarcus owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:02:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Ruth Marcus X-X-Sender: rmarcus@ajax.its.yale.edu To: Ruben Safir cc: Ruth Marcus Subject: Re: wikepedia In-Reply-To: <20070822103327.GA30289@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: References: <20070708115905.GA11446@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20070709015808.GA20548@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20070710024822.GA31379@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20070822103327.GA30289@www2.mrbrklyn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 48 Lines: 6 What is a bio of me doing on your site? mp m From owner-hangout@mrbrklyn.com Thu Aug 23 18:05:58 2007 Received: from www2.mrbrklyn.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id l7NM5tSu012290 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:05:57 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l7NM5tcr012289 for hangout-outgoings; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:05:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: www2.mrbrklyn.com: majordomo set sender to owner-hangout@nylxs.com using -f Received: from www2.mrbrklyn.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id l7NM5W7f012285; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:05:34 -0400 Received: (from ruben@localhost) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l7NM5Wwj012284; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:05:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:05:32 -0400 From: Ruben Safir To: Ruben Safir Cc: Ron Guerin , hangout@mrbrklyn.com Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fair Use, anyone? Message-ID: <20070823220532.GA12154@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <46CDF32C.2080804@vnetworx.net> <20070823214635.GA12063@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20070823214635.GA12063@www2.mrbrklyn.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: owner-hangout@mrbrklyn.com Precedence: bulk Status: RO Content-Length: 1616 Lines: 38 You want to see craziness for Fair Use? I have an Aunt who is a dean at Yale University. Someone added a family history to her entry on Wikepedia. Others removed it. Once, I put it back. She emailed me and demanded that I changed it because it wasn't in her image. So I archived the example as it was under http://www.mrbrklyn.com/resources/ and edited to her liking. NOW she's demanding a take down from my archive. Do you think I'd remove anything from my online archives to satify relatives ego? And here is the best part, she is fameous for her work on the philosophical analysis of moral questions. Its amazing how morally challenged people are when they want to have their way. http://www.mrbrklyn.com/resources/ruth_barcan1.txt Ruben -- http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME" "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society." "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.< You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attacted at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one." © Copyright for the Digital Millennium From ron@vnetworx.net Thu Aug 23 18:11:52 2007 Received: from broadway.vnetworx.net (broadway.vnetworx.net [69.31.43.18]) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id l7NMBo2N012363 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:11:52 -0400 Received: (qmail 18515 invoked by uid 89); 23 Aug 2007 22:11:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.42?) (74.73.31.218) by broadway.vnetworx.net with SMTP for ; 23 Aug 2007 22:11:47 -0000 Message-ID: <46CE061F.9050702@vnetworx.net> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:11:43 -0400 From: Ron Guerin User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ruben Safir CC: hangout@mrbrklyn.com Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fair Use, anyone? References: <46CDF32C.2080804@vnetworx.net> <20070823214635.GA12063@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20070823220532.GA12154@www2.mrbrklyn.com> In-Reply-To: <20070823220532.GA12154@www2.mrbrklyn.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 295 Lines: 10 Ruben Safir wrote: > Its amazing how morally challenged people are when they want to have > their way. It no longer amazes me, but that doesn't make it any less irritating. Those who hide behind the law in dismissing morality are often those who paid for the legislation to begin with. - Ron From owner-hangout@mrbrklyn.com Thu Aug 23 18:18:44 2007 Received: from www2.mrbrklyn.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id l7NMIgpX012478 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:18:44 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l7NMIgV9012477 for hangout-outgoings; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:18:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: www2.mrbrklyn.com: majordomo set sender to owner-hangout@nylxs.com using -f Received: from www2.mrbrklyn.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id l7NMIFQV012469; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:18:17 -0400 Received: (from ruben@localhost) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l7NMIETD012468; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:18:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:18:14 -0400 From: Ruben Safir To: Ron Guerin Cc: Ruben Safir , hangout@mrbrklyn.com Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fair Use, anyone? Message-ID: <20070823221814.GA12385@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <46CDF32C.2080804@vnetworx.net> <20070823214635.GA12063@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <46CE054E.1090106@vnetworx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <46CE054E.1090106@vnetworx.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: owner-hangout@mrbrklyn.com Precedence: bulk Status: RO Content-Length: 4975 Lines: 106 On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 06:08:14PM -0400, Ron Guerin wrote: > Ruben Safir wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 04:50:52PM -0400, Ron Guerin wrote: > >> This is a question for Ruben, but I'm sure he'd prefer to answer it > >> publicly, so I'm going to ask it here. > >> > >> What do you make of this? > >> http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/08/worlds-largest-.html > >> > >> This girl was convicted of filming 20 seconds of a movie. Doesn't that > >> seem ... uhm... un-Constitutional? If twenty seconds doesn't fall under > >> Fair Use, what does? > > > > Was it in the theater when filmed, or from a VHS? She has an idiot lawyer since we SAW > > Time Warner film by a camcorder 20 seconds of Sipiderman I film as an EXAMPLE of Fair Use > > at the DMCA hearing. > > She filmed 20 seconds of it while in the theater on her digital camera. > Note that we're not even talking a camcorder, we're talking those > "videos" digital cameras make. Odds are her camera didn't even have the > capacity to record more than a few minutes. The theater had her > prosecuted. The DA claims to have been "pressured". > > > So should we form a protest and get ourselves arrested as well? > > I'm not pretending to know much about this, which is partly why I've > brought it up. Obviously you didn't read the article yet, but to give > you the executive summary, the MPAA has been getting a law passed making > it a serious crime to record in a movie theater, and a specific theater > chain pressed charges against a 19 year old girl in Virginia to make an > example of her over 20 seconds of video she was bringing home to her > little brother. I don't know if New York has such a law, I don't know > if that chain operates in New York. But you've answered my question, > which is why I asked you. You're the guy I know who'd know that Time > Warner did something even more sophisticated and presented it as an > example of Fair Use at trial. Virgina is not far from here and I haven't been locked up for a while. BTW - I'm flying out to SF next month and I hope to catch up with some west coast friends. I have a 5 day conference on Pharmacokindtics and Clinical Pharmacology. As per Ruth Barcan Marcus, This the the URL for the original Wikipedia entry. http://www.mrbrklyn.com/resources/Ruth_Barcan_Marcus.html Check this out [edit] Moral Conflict Marcus defines a consistent set of moral principles as one in which there is some "possible world " in which they are all obeyable. That they may conflict in the actual world is not a mark of inconsistency. As in the case of necessity of identity, there was a resistance to this interpretation of moral conflict. Her argument counts against a widely received view that systems of moral rules are inevitably inconsistent. See "Moral Dilemmas and Consistency" (Journal of Philosophy, 1980)(and frequently published elsewhere). [edit] Belief It is proposed that believing is a relationship of an agent to a possible state of affairs under specified internal and external circumstances. Assenting to a quoted sentence (the disquotation account of belief) is only one behavioral marker of believing. Betting behavior is another. The wholly language centered account of belief (e.g. Davidson) is rejected. Where an agent behaves as if an impossibility obtained Marcus proposes that under those circumstances the agent, on the disclosure of the impossibility should say that she only claimed to believe an impossibility. In much the same way, when a mathamatecian discovers that one of his conjectures is false, and since if it is mathetatically false it is impossible, he would say he only claimed to believe it. Odd as this proposal is, it is analogous to the widely accepted principle about knowing: if we claim to know P, and P turns out false, we do not say we we used to know it, we say we were mistaken in so claiming. See "A Proposed Solution to The Puzzle About Belief" (Foundations of Analytic Philosophy in Midwest Studies, 1981) and "Rationality and Believing the Impossible" (The Journal of Philosophy, 1983 and elsewhere). Want to email her? Ruben > > - Ron -- http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME" "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society." "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.< You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attacted at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one." © Copyright for the Digital Millennium